The List & Ya Boy Wrestling Podcast #142 10/9/19 | WWE’s Issues, Hell In A Cell Finish | Fightful

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it’s the list and your boy with Jimmy then and Shawn Ross sap with Jimmy and Shawn so you don’t make a fantastic what’s up you guys Sean Ross SAP it is fight for calm fight for wrestling calm listing your boy number 142 it is October 9th hot dog Jimmy I feel rejuvenated I had a kind of a Tuesday all fish thing they’re still wrestling going on and I watched it but the thing is I watched it by choice this week hahahaha I don’t think we’re gonna hit you with a sledgehammer if I didn’t check out a nibble you a power no but I watched it I enjoyed it it’s it’s it’s a wild week it’s a busy week but here we are yeah okay first thing I’m gonna say is Happy Thanksgiving to my fellow Canadians being that Monday’s yeah so this weekend is a long weekend and then next Monday is Thanksgiving up here in Canada so happy Thanksgiving to everybody next thing I want to do is I want to thank the supporters of Fife will select calm because between Sunday night and Tuesday morning we saw a 22% increase and I our subscriber base as a result of the Hell in a Cell nonsense and some and some scoop skis the Shawn Ross iPad so thanks for the support that’s pretty awesome select has grown at a pretty good clip and that’s I should mention Zack Chimel as one of our champion level subscribers and such a generous guy that dude when you subscribe to that you get like one free plug a month and his plug was just plugging how successful fight will select has been this week really yes type of a plus people we’re dealing with well this week III want to apologize to you Sean Ross app if I dominate some of the conversation this week because I got some stuff I want to talk about and the other thing I want to say is anybody listening who is a devote loyal WWE fan who thinks they can do no wrong and thinks everything that they do is amazing and thanks mister man is a genius you might not like this show this week now I am NOT going to be negative and hateful and you know shit on everything I’m just gonna gonna kind of tell it like it is but it’s stuff I want to talk about and we’ve kind of touched upon it before this isn’t new but I’m just gonna take it up a notch this week shot you know you know I like those epoch triggered rants Jimmy I know you do I you know I do that I love to do it because otherwise if we didn’t there’d be some dumbass on there like listen to this mark yeah I do is I just go ahead and put it in the title awesome awesome well I want to start by saying this Shawn I don’t know your situation in terms of like when you became a fan of what you were a fan of and all that 1990 Jimmy now you know okay so well for me personally I have been a WWE fan specifically since I was 10 years old because I grew up in a small town in southern Ontario Canada a town that did not have cable TV and to this day still does not have cable TV if you can believe it and I we didn’t get to satellite in our household until I was a teenager so that meant that when I was a kid all I had was a handful of free to air stations to watch but it just so happened that two wrestling shows aired weekly on those stations one was international wrestling out of Montreal which means that I had a lot of good fortune I got to see the Rojo’s in Rick Martel and tom zenk and dino bravo and bruiser Brody and I’ve dueled the butcher and you know a lot of really solid guys the other show was the WUF Superstars a wrestling syndicated show and as you know Shawn lady late 80s was a great time to be a double w/e fan because you had Hogan and Andre and Piper and savage and steamboat jake the snake’ roberts the bulldogs the Hart Foundation it was a great time to be a double w/e fan then came the early to mid 90s and that’s when it became a little harder to defend the W product because Vince McMahon was churning out guys like the goon and Mantor and T L hopper and he put Jim Knight under a mask and called him who that was a tough time to be a wrestling fan but I persevered Shawn you know what I mean I persevered and I continued being a supporter of the W product then came the late nineties into the early 2000s and was that not a great time to be a wrestling fan because not only did you have the attitude in the WUF with Austin and Rock and DX and taker and Kane and all those guys but you also had the NWO and sting and Booker T and Goldberg and all the guys that were big on the WCW side as well so that was a great time then came 2001 and he saw ECW fold you saw WCW fold WWE became a monopoly and ever since then Shaun ever since 2001 slowly the quality of the WV product has eroded and the popularity of the WWE product has eroded things have really escalated though in the last few months when you say yeah I mean there have been some brief glimpses and glimmers of hope throughout that period that you mentioned but nothing has ever sustained no Nexus didn’t sustain they got all that buzz for the Nexus it didn’t sustain CM Punk it didn’t sustain the brand split it worked for a little bit they didn’t sustain it yeah and and some of the things you know I actually failed in an article that I wrote way back in 2012 if you guys go to Jimmy Van comm which was my old wrestling site I had turned it into a wordpress blog because I was gonna do some writing there and then I got busy with my business and I just kind of lost an interest in it but I had an article from 2012 seven years ago in which I was complaining about things like 50/50 booking and them running the same match back over and over and over again at the time they were doing Kofi Kingston Dolph Ziggler on television over and over and over again so already seven years ago these things were happening and it’s escalated a lot and and so I want to get into you know I’m not gonna go into great detail about Hell in a Cell because Sean Ross sab did a review on Sunday night after the pay-per-view you can go to Fite Volcom or slash playful so I’m not going to go into great detail about the finish of that main event I’m just gonna kind of talk about mr. Vince McMahon which leads me of course to Brady let’s go to stupid people stupid people is what this segments called you might wonder why we do it isn’t that boat a wrestling at all used to be WWE’s weekly usage of stupid nicknames which we did hoping they’d stop giving wrestlers lame names but it didn’t work so he gave up in a new segment we came up with the stupid people stupid people stupid [Music] so I was telling Sean this is gonna be the first week that we are not gonna do actual stupid people news stories I’m gonna just kind of focus on the the state of WWE this week and we’ve never you know shown the super people video this early in the show before Sean but we’re doing it this week and I want to start by telling you this or talking about this so around the first week of February 2020 on yeah right so about the first week of February 20 20 W W E is going to report their earnings for this quarter that we’re in right now which is q4 for them okay when they report those earnings around the first week of February 2020 they will report record revenues and they will report record profits because of the current deals that they just had kick in with USA and Fox all right the new the news outlets that covered LW ease earnings when they report those numbers they’re gonna quote Vince McMahon because they always quote Vince men in the press release so they’re gonna quote Vince McMahon and some of those news outlets are going to paint Vince McMahon as a genius when they talk about the financial success of the company and where their numbers are okay here is cold hard fact number one double W ease financial success in this era is in spite of Vince McMahon not because of Vince McMahon all right and that and that is a fact WWE right now is the beneficiary of a changing television landscape they are the beneficiary of a landscape in which live sport is more sought after by networks than ever before because live sport is considered DVR proof so the theory is the fans are gonna watch the commercials that means advertisers want that content and networks want that content and for whatever reason WWE wrestling has been grouped into this live sport category I know I’m not convinced that double W we as DVR proof to the level of you know say NFL football or major league baseball but they’ve been grouped into that category they are the beneficiaries of that and as a result Fox is giving them 205 million a year over five years because they want that live sport DVR proof content fact of the matter is is though popularity has eroded over time as we said it’s escalated this year young people are either tuning out or they’re not sampling the product the average demo was aging but despite dwindling ratings breakeven live events it’s essentially you know a non-starter for them now it used to be their bread and butter a stagnant Network here WWE is going to be more profitable than they’ve ever been in the history of the entire company I don’t know man what are your thoughts on the whole thing cuz it’s gonna happen they’re gonna release those earnings in February this immense can be painted as a genius I think that this this this success currently has nothing to do with miss McMann what are your thoughts so I the report that I published that got us a lot of subscribers this week man I talk to a lot of some of those people and Jimmy it if I were to tell the people that some of the people I talk to would be completely shocking names would that be an understatement yes you told me some of them yes yes I showed you one of them and people that you would never expect to talk to people like me about this we’re talking to me about this I’ve never had a reception in a reaction like what happened at Hell in a Cell and this goes in with what you’re talking about one of the things that one of the people told me was Vince’s an oblivious Shawn and they said it like that Vince isn’t oblivious Shawn and I’m thinking then why’d he book that yeah like he knew he messed up but if he’s not oblivious why did why did he look that he thought going in it was a good idea it wasn’t until he heard the crowd reaction but now you realized it was a bad idea every single other person that I’ve talked to talked to that day made the response said they knew it was a bad idea yeah they would have known it was a bad idea and I’m sure that’s easy to say now yeah real easy to say but you look at this and am I saying if instantly I need to step away completely not necessarily credibly he does yeah I’m sure he’s got something great to offer I mean hey he was the one that spearheaded the AJ Styles push Jimmy Jacobs told me that personally he said that nobody even thought to bring up AJ Styles name when Roman reigns needed somebody to feud with because they didn’t think Vince would go for it and Vince was like nope we’re going with AJ that’s who were going with that’s and rains his new opponent he’ll help make Roman reigns all this stuff so I mean there there’s still a few bullets in that chamber so to say I’m sure he’s still got some great creative ideas but we sat through four weeks in a row of like a superstar shake up that ceases to exist like it it was pointless it was a ratings grab it was a ploy and then the wild-card thing and you could just tell that he was like god dammit this is brilliant and it wasn’t brilliant and nobody likes it well had hustlers telling me today they still don’t know what brand they’re going to yeah why you got to work them like they’re there there are some things now have all the answers and all the keys and all the like something to unlock all this but they’re just some fundamental things and I know they don’t want spoilers to get out and all that and I want some common courtesy to help out morale and stuff like that just anything to help out and maybe entice these guys to be a little bit more creative on their own I I don’t know how w he can fix this because ultimately it filters through one guy yeah yeah I mean to me Helena so was just another in a long line of examples of Vincent man’s creative ineptitude over the last 15 years you think back to what evolution split and dave bautista you know went babyface to work a program with hunter Triple H himself told this story this McMahon wanted the payoff match to happen the very next week on Raw think about that man and it was Triple H himself who had to push and say no were saving this for Wrestlemania that was 2005 Shawn that was fourteen dozen that was 2004 and 2005 yeah that was 14 years ago this is how long these kinds of things have been happening and I’ve said this before I think the double W E board should be concerned yeah I’m sure that quietly Vince a man is concerned Triple H is concerned because Vince McMahon in 2019 is a creative liability to double w he has a liability to WWE in 2019 and that is a fact a Hell in a Cell and again we don’t have to go into into great detail about it but everybody came off for the worst like everybody came off worse after then they went going in South Rollins came off looking bad Bray Wyatt cap came out looking bad W we came out looking bad it there was just no logic and we had talked going in about why would you do it to begin with why would you put a hot new act in a match like that where you only had very limited logical finish options you and I saw it a lot of people saw it why would you do that to begin with like you put yourself in this hole uh yeah exactly and that was the thing that everybody had questioned it was it’s the title of it of a clip that I isolated did WB paint themselves into a corner right and Jimmy I’ve been writing about wrestling for almost 10 years I’ve been doing this full-time like five five and a half I have never ever ever seen something so universally agreed upon as panning this finish and I mean nothing I haven’t seen one person defend it and I’m sure there’s some dumb ass out there that will but I’m talking wrestlers employees media fans everybody that I’ve spoken to about this directly did not like it thought it was a bad idea could tell it was a bad idea Vince was very specific about how this plays out and it was just such a bad idea I don’t it just reeks of like WCW falling downward like going that non finishing the main event like well you know what the live audience wasn’t happy on the air you could hear them chant you you could hear them Chantry start the match when Bray Wyatt got up I have a clip from that somebody took with their smartphone at the event this is courtesy of the DVD freak on YouTube and trust me there are a lot of them a lot of people took cell phone videos to show what the crowds was feeling but I just I just grabbed one again courtesy of the DVD freak on YouTube Brady put up his clip [Applause] [Applause] [Applause] you know that was the first show in a new building Sean so wait way to potentially kill the killer town you know in a new venue now one positive that came out of this whole thing Sean because this brought a smile to my face I want to give props to the people over at brazzers the the adult entity for getting into the the action here they posted this on Twitter breed you got that graphic browser is a WWE let us know if you need advice on how to craft logical and coherent storylines was satisfying finishes but you know what if Jimmy it’s it’s funny you mentioned getting in on the action how does sometimes you can go missing in action or at least your dick can but fortunately with blue Chu code fight ‘fl you’ll never be missing in action you’re gonna be getting that action but nobody’s gonna know about it unless you tell them because this stuff comes in a discreet package blue chu is the first chewable with the same fda-approved active ingredients as Viagra and Cialis so you know they work they’ve been working for decades but this works a lot better it’s a lot cheaper it’s a lot faster it’s better because if the tubal gets in your system a lot faster it’s cheaper because you have to wait around the pharmacy I’m not just talking about cheaper financially I’m talking about cheaper with your time Jimmy and I often talk about how important time is what’s your time worth how about this zero bucks zero bucks cuz you use that code fight full and you get it for free you just pay the five dollars shipping you don’t have to go sit in line at a doctor’s office it comes straight to you and you then you come straight to whatever it is you want to come to I don’t know what blue shoe comm code fight feels gonna get you that hard erect penis blue shoe calm code fuck use that code and also hit them up on twitter at blue chu let them know you heard about them from us we love these guys you guys will love them too I had somebody reach out to me today hey man it’s a gimmick I said no it’s not a gimmick it’s legit but it will help your gimmick it will enhance your gimmick you know but maybe early on she’ll be saying whoo-hoo-hoo then later on she’ll be calling you the anvil for sure that’s for damn sure blue shoe comm code fight for good ones so sticking with the state of WWE theme I want to talk about Kofi Kingston okay okay now you some of my opinions you may agree with you may not agree with but these are my opinions so we’ve talked about this before to me Kofi Kingston was never the guy to me he was never the top star on Smackdown even though he was the WWE Champion but at WrestleMania he was the guy in the moment for sure yeah at WrestleMania he was the guy that fans were into but my opinion again Shawn the fans were more into the story than they were the guy at WrestleMania i if there is no guy there is no story you’re right you’re right but I I think that it could have been almost anybody in that spot and the stories with the boys yeah let me let me let me follow Cruz is gonna fill fill that spot it would’ve been the same it wouldn’t have been the same thing because Kofi’s story was that he was a 14 year I guess maybe a 13 year veteran because he started in the system in 2006 so his story was that he was a 13 year veteran he was a tag team champion he was an Intercontinental Champion I don’t know if he ever won the US title but he was a tag champion and he was a mid card champion guy but he was never the world champion because he was never given an opportunity to become double W each champion and that was the story and the fans knew it the fans knew that going into Elimination Chamber all he got injured and Kofi was kind of the utility player that was put in there to take his place got an opportunity at the WWE title got over because the people understood the story here’s this 13-year grizzled veteran who’s never had a shot at the double W title and he’s finally getting it after 13 years they dug that story they were behind him he beats Daniel Bryan at WrestleMania crowd went nuts for it but my opinion Kofi’s popularity peak was WrestleMania in my opinion and once the fans saw that story and once they got that feel-good moment and I write the grizzled veteran won the title they never reacted to him the same way again and and my opinion is that a lot of fans after WrestleMania went back to looking at Kofi Kingston as a member of the new day a member of the trio of guys that wears pastel colors throws pancakes into the crowd dances in the ring cuts jokes I think a lot of them looked at him like that and did you notice that whenever he would do an entrance without Biggie’s intro you could hear a pin drop on a lot of Kofi Kingston’s entrance that well I I do think you’re severely under playing this because nobody I’m making a point I’m making a point the point I’m making is this even though I believe that Kofi Kingston you know after WrestleMania wasn’t the guy his popularity peaked at WrestleMania all of that the fact of the matter is WWE spent six months Shawn they spent six months investing time and investing money into Kofi Kingston because for six months they protected him more than they protected anybody on the roster and his finish and is finished they protected his finish better than anybody with the possible exception of Baron Corbin Zenda days they protected his finish more than anybody on the roster he went over everyone and he went over everyone clean including Daniel Bryan and Kevin Owens and Samoa Joe and Randy Orton six months they invested that time and that money and those wrestlers they sacrificed those wrestlers for Kofi Kingston and then what did they do after six months in front of their largest television audience in years on the debut of Smackdown on Fox last week they had Brock Lesnar annihilate him in five seconds for the double w/e title and then after the pin you never saw him on television again because they focused on Brock’s next program with with Cain Velasquez I watched that as a wrestling fan I thought that was a head scratcher watching that I don’t think it was a surprise that Brock lesner was gonna win the double w/e title but I sure as hell didn’t think it was gonna be a five-second annihilation makes a setup Cain Velasquez setup and Velasquez yet I think for the WWE Universal best real fighter nine years ago title I thought that to wipe Kofi out like that and to make him look foolish by jumping into the f5 like that after spending six months of time and you just talked earlier about how time is is a value and I’m always telling you time as a value they spent six months of television time putting them over and then they got told them like that I could not believe that they did that Shawn and again I wasn’t a Kofi Kingston guy but just from a business perspective I was stunned that Zayn took him out like that so I got a lot of things to say about this like the Kofi thing about it could have been anybody I don’t think so because people knew that ten years ago he had that shot and at no real fault of his own it was taken from him why sure I agree with that first yeah and the build was perfect there was no better build the follow-up initially was pretty good Kevin Owens yeah it’s a hell of a good second opponent then you get into Dolph Ziggler yeah you get into Samoa Joe and I love Samoa Joe but Samoa Joe had lost every championship opportunity he’d ever gotten so you wasted Kofi’s June and July essentially okay we knew that he wasn’t losing that title to them the Orton stuff that had to happen that defined his reign there are people that are like oh one step or it’s the same as gender no it’s not no it isn’t it gender never had a good story he was never over he never moved merch and he was Enhancement Jenner was in him Kofi was in ever enhancement yeah and not only that gender ain’t good in the ring I’m not gonna say that Kofi had great matches since WrestleMania I didn’t see any great mattress int WrestleMania his best work I think of his career was leading up to Wrestlemania and then WrestleMania but you worked a different kind of match when you had that title unfortunately that’s that’s the situation they could have served Kofi Kingston better we know that there are people that are gonna dislike him no matter what that’s just that’s just the bottom line you’ve got those fucking morons I’ve heard people that are like oh he’s got a concave chest who gives us really oh yeah oh yeah and then people that are like oh well he doesn’t look like it shit what the fuck does a champion look like you know what a champion looks like John Jones the Anderson Silva those dimensions ain’t that much different for Kofi Kingston right now as Kofi Kingston exists Jimmy he is a UFC heavyweight like that’s yeah that’s I think people underestimate how big these people are that is how big these guys are and for all the talk of like I mean just so many weird things that like you see and there’s the discussion of credibility all well they’re gonna add credibility they’re gonna add credibility to the divet to who do people think that this is like that that’s the most baffling thing to me it’s a story it is a story I often bring it back to two Breaking Bad am I supposed to believe that Aaron Paul is actually a meth dealer no I’m not but I believe that Jesse Pinkman is if they can convince me within a story like braun strowman for a long time do I think braun strowman could beat up everybody no do I think that he could tear up a bunch of shit and put himself in the position to win or do anything he wanted yes because I find myself falling into that character Kofi Kingston made that character work and I think sustained pretty good reactions after WrestleMania but man throw at Dolph Ziggler and Samoa Joe two great performers that everybody knew didn’t have a chance to beat him boy did that halt that momentum and then how I did that review a disservice that was such a that was bad but see to me to me to me it’s not really as big of a like my point really isn’t about how they treated Kofi after mania my point is that they protected him for six months and then they killed him in five seconds and I didn’t understand that and they knew that this was going to be their most beaut so in years they knew it and so I I don’t know why they didn’t do a five to seven-minute match like Brock has done with other guys of cofee size or smaller I didn’t understand why they didn’t let him get spots in and at least try to make him look strong in defeat they made him look like an idiot and then they’d intro him on TV again and and again after spending six months investing time and money into him I was stunned that that they treated him like that one other the other if they were sorry if they were to do this story this story and I get it they had to have something big for the Fox debut I really wish they would have rather went to Orton for super show down in stomping grounds then had Lesnar beat him at SummerSlam because let’s be honest we didn’t need that Lesnar and and if he was gonna crush Kofi that could have been Lesnar cashing in money in the bank right go yeah but they blew that they gave us just my god well one other critique I want to make about double w in Vince McMahon because something else that that I noticed from last week it has long been a desire I guess a Vince McMahon that the marquee at the building reads WWE right that that they don’t have to worry about putting names of the talent on the marquee and they don’t have to worry about drawing a house because of the names on the marquee he wants the brand WWE to be the draw and that has long been the thing about Vince McMahon as a matter of fact that’s something that Dana White’s been very public that he kind of borrowed from mrs. McMahon because he wanted the same for the UFC he wants the UFC to be the draw and not any particular name to me I want to address a comment in our chat even though they didn’t donate a super chat by the way if you want your comment or question read donate a super chat but leave a thumbs up somebody says Kofi’s not a big enough name to be the face of Smackdown for Fox well is an absent face a big enough face to be the face of Fox because unless they’ve got some sort of special deal with Brock he ain’t gonna be there very off nobody see it yet but but again that’s not even my point whether whether Kofi is as big enough names not my point my point is they invested six months into him yeah and and television time is valuable you know what I mean putting shorting putting time into somebody on on your TV show there’s a value there so my point is whether you think he’s a big name or not to invest six months of time and money into Kofi Kingston and then take him out in five seconds to me was a just really really bad business decision it’s like you completely killed that six months worth of money and time that you put into him that’s my point on that well I agree but well I I mean I want to see what they do on Friday yeah I would love to see Kofi at some point whether it be for the title or not gonna come up and because I think there’s I think there’s a good match and a good pay-per-view story to be told there the unfortunate thing is I’m starting to get Alex syndrome where I’m like that I know they’re not gonna do it I know they’re not gonna do it I’ve said the F word more this week on this show in any shows that I have in months unbelievable let’s get to some super chats Rob Wilkins says you think they should have Kofi go over Rollins when the belt or do you think they want him on Smackdown also Debbie dubium browsers presents cuck is war yeah which is true too so then I mean Rollins is that’s the funny thing for all the talk about Kofi Kingston yeah Seth Rollins has been an outright boring champion yeah and you know what I’ve got Seth on your all let’s talk about Seth in a little bit because I want to get to my last point but WB first but to answer your question though I think that Rollins would have to turn heel and I think that maybe he should after the way that he’s been treated and if they were to do that they could do the match no one wants to see baby face Rollins against baby face Kofi but if they turn Rollins he’ll they could absolutely do that you’re not gonna turn Kofi healed even though it might be interesting if they tried it again because they did it before with new day but their character is whether they were healed or baby face were more or less the same yeah so so I guess we’d have to see the point I wanted to make going back to how bintz wanted double w/e on the marquee the reason I’m bringing this up is because in today’s landscape with so much content available for people to consume not just wrestling but you’ve got video games you’ve got streaming services you’ve got YouTube you get everything else how long does Vince McMahon think that he can get away with falsely advertising names without any kind of public backlash because what they did on Smackdown for the debut on Fox it was pretty interesting to me how how much they falsely advertised names and things like that back in August they announced a bunch of names that were gonna be at the premiere including Kurt Angle Lita Mick Foley Booker T Trish Stratus Hulk Hogan Goldberg Jerry Lawler Mark Henry Ric Flair and sting all of those names were only shown for two seconds sitting in the front row Hogan got music but otherwise they just showed him in in the front row sting wasn’t shown at all then put up this graphic you have the double WM graphic when they were promoting Smackdown on Fox tickets for smackdowns show this is before obviously before it took place and who is on the top left of that graphic Shawn Undertaker Undertaker so they advertised the Undertaker then after this show took place and there was no taker somebody asked the Undertaker on Instagram where he was and take her honestly said I was told I wasn’t needed let’s be fair Kofi Kingston’s on that too and he spent about as much time on screen as Hogan and player did that’s very true that’s very true then just one week before the Fox show took place it was on September 24th the WWE on Fox Twitter account advertised Stone Cold Steve Austin and if you watch Smackdown on Fox on Friday night did you see Stone Cold’s and Ross no no so they advertised Steve Austin and they didn’t produce some of the advertised sting and the imprint didn’t produce them they advertised The Undertaker and then told them he wasn’t needed and every other name that they advertised they showed him on TV for two seconds in the front row I watched all that and I thought to myself again how arrogant can you be in this landscape with so many entertainment options for people that you think it’s okay to falsely advertise names because you think that WWE is the draw on the marquee how long do you think he can get away with that there’s a reason that they’re drawing crowds of a few thousand people Shawn and obviously not you know producing big stars and having shitty storylines is a big reason for that but falsely advertising names is another one yeah I hate it I just man it’s it’s frustrating to see so many easily correctable missteps well and I’m gonna play devil’s advocate for a minute okay this is where I might turn into Alex for for two or three minutes because I’m gonna play devil’s advocate here let’s look first at the Smackdown ratings for last week we’ve got a graphic courtesy of show buzz daily put that up Brady the television ratings for last week this is courtesy of show buzz daily from Friday night now if you look they do it by network when it comes to network television so if you scroll down to Friday Night Smackdown they did three point eight eight eight million viewers and a one point oh I’m sorry a one point four in the adults 18 to 49 demo which is obviously the demo that they care about their advertisers now I don’t know what Fox’s targets are when it comes to viewership obviously when you look at their competition they didn’t come close to a lot of their competitors when it came to viewers but they killed their competitors when it came to the 18-49 demo which is what’s important I don’t know what Fox’s viewership target is I have heard that there 18 to 49 demo target is a 1.0 okay that means that at least for one week wew be delivered in the 18 to 49 demo they gave them 1.4 but here’s where I want to play devil’s advocate this was their big premiere week last Friday yes alright they advertised the rock for the show Sean that means that means that it is very possible that their peak was their premiere last Friday Ryan for sure and it’s very likely this week even though they’re doing the draft it’s very likely that the numbers are gonna drop from here well anybody who has watched one of their drafts this year knows it doesn’t mean shit right and that’s true – that’s true – so the first question that I ask and this is this is you know what’s the what I’m looking for a hypothetical question but my first question is what if WWE struggles to maintain a 1.0 in the 18 to 49 demo as the week’s turned into months turn into years what happens right then add to that Shawn the fact that WWE has been rewarding disgruntled Talent with big new contracts so gavels and anderson probably we’re gonna resign they gave him more money to get them to come back sasha banks was upset wanted to quit they brought her back and gave her more money Mike and Maria Kanellis were given more money all right add to that and you touched upon this already the fact that we know that a lot of double w talent has their contracts coming due within the next year including some pretty high up names all writing names some big names what’s gonna happen when that time comes and those people are looking to leave WWE is gonna throw money Adam Shawn because they’ve got the money right now when they’re getting two hundred five million a year from Fox and two hundred plus a year from USA the point I’m making is this what happens five years from now if they’re not able to maintain that 1.04 Fox if they’ve given out all of these big contracts to all these talents in order to keep them appeased and to keep them you know pacified and then five years from now the demand isn’t there for firfer when they’re looking to re-up their contract and to Fox isn’t going to give them another two hundred five million on on a new deal what happens if Fox comes back or what if what if the demand is 100 million a year what if the demand is 50 million a year and all of a sudden your revenue is cut by half or maybe more than half but you suddenly have overhead many multiples of what it was in 2019 what’s gonna happen then and I’m not suggesting that dubb dubby is gonna go the way WCW I’m not suggesting that but one of the things that killed WCW was inflated contracts coupled with with declining revenue and so what’s gonna happen if those things happen if they’re not able to maintain those numbers and have to keep on appeasing disgruntled talents by throwing money on him what do you think could happen in in four or five years I mean you get a lot of unmotivated people who are there for money and don’t care about being creative and I mean there are some performers that can overcome that but there are a lot of creatively driven people in this line of work Jimmy I mean I’d honestly I know hundreds of wrestlers I don’t know what ton of them that got into it from the beginning and said you know what I’m gonna be a millionaire I don’t know a lot of people like that most of them wanted a creative outlet goldberg brock lesnar those are the first two that come to mind because they did it for the money but just about everybody else we’re fans of the business and that’s why they got into it yeah we have a couple more Super chats bhoomesh rana says do you think ending Kofi’s rain with a squash match was the right thing to do just to put a part-timer over and could Velasquez his debut had been done better I think it could have been done better by not just just not having the title it could have been done so much better than they did it I thought they made ray look like a bitch yeah that you know what so so here here’s part of the problem that I had with this with this thing and again I don’t profess to be a creative genius I don’t profess to be a guy that could you know run WWE creatively I wrote an article for 500 select com called the double-double Yui fix where I gave suggestions for a way that they can improve the product but I’m not professing that that anything that I think is right but let me just say this a lot of wrestling fans do not know who came Velasquez is okay came Velasquez beat Brock Lesnar for the UFC title almost a decade ago Sean so a lot a lot of wrestling fans don’t know who he is that being said having Cain Velasquez come out to Rey Mysterio’s music starting with a wide shot because they wanted to get the stage in starting with a wide shot of him walking down you know how many people on social media were saying that they thought that was Dominick at first I did write like I I looked at that and I thought you really did a stupid thing I mean I mean my opinion is having it be for the W title Brock and Kane is a mistake because it doesn’t need the WWE title that’s a hot match to begin with that’s number one right that’s number one and don’t you want to stack the deck there don’t you want to have that and a WWE to match right so that’s number one and number two I think that there would have been a lot more to it if Kane had a run out and cost Brock the match as opposed to waiting until the match was over now granted some people will say well yeah but he beat Kofi in five seconds so Kane didn’t have time it’s predetermined Entertainment they can determine they can make it a five-minute match and have key and run out what I would have done if it was me Shawn Kings when we’re in a lucha mask in triple-a I would have had him run out from the crowd wearing a jumpsuit and we’re in that lucha mask I would have had him jump brock match ends by DQ Brock loses his WWE opportunity title opportunity mask comes off it’s Cain Velasquez and then and then from there you start telling the story a lot of people a lot of people haven’t seen the knockout in the UFC yes WWE has to introduce these people to Cain Velasquez and with all due respect to Cain Velasquez cuz you and I both know how good a vo sea fighter he is PD was okay fine whatever people people that don’t know Cain Velasquez Shawn all they saw was a flabby looking guy with a shirt off in the ring and that is a fact they need to tell the story they could have presented him a lot better I hated the way they did it and as a matter of fact I thought if you have to come if you had to come up with three or four different ways and that was one of them that would have been the worst of the three or four different ways and the thing is Cain isn’t coming off like a hot streak his last win was over three years ago right he has not been a relevant top contender for that title since he lost it like that that’s it he hasn’t fought regularly we have a couple more super chats bhoomesh rana says love from India Rob Wilkins says five years from now maybe Disney presents WWE I think that’s a good point and potential maybe they sell yeah I mean they’ve said they’re open for business yeah I mean they’ve said they’re open for business Vince obviously isn’t getting any younger I think what it would come down to is what is Hunter want because Hunter is going to be the guy and I think that’s Stephanie with all due respect to her is gonna do whatever hunter wants and so I think it’s gonna come down to he’s got a passion for wrestling does he want it yeah does he want to sell it you know what he could do Sean he could do the Dana White deal sure so he could sell it but then he could maintain you know his position I could see them doing something like that because Hunter loves it you know man I guess which aspect of this Cain Lesnar match it’s 2,000 feet above sea level Jimmy Cain went in that we have Kevin Lang Hoff who says question for Sean I see a lot of people saying that Becky will go to SmackDown but she has a raw championship thoughts nobody that I’ve talked to has any idea where they’re going right now and if they take the raw championship over to Smackdown that’s dumb that’s dumb and they really should have just named one the WIMP women’s w/e title and won the universal title right and they could just switch them but Jimmy we got to take a little bit of a break from going off next weekend is not this weekend next weekend is impact Bound for Glory we’ve got a couple of big features dropping we’ve got Ethan Paige and Jordan grace take a list a little bit of a preview of my interview with Jordan grace how many tweets did you get when your contract status a little bit up in the air that was like oh well she’s definitely going to Ring of Honor because that’s what her fiance works a million cuz I got several and like I don’t think I’ve ever spoken to you publicly at that point so I was like man she has to be getting a ton of those because people just assume oh well she’s going there because you can’t be happy there were else there was a lot of speculation about where I was going but most people thought that I was probably gonna go to ring of large because that’s where John is obviously and I mean he’s got a big hand in that with the dojo and a lot of that but I mean why do you think it is that people for some reason think that wrestlers and different companies can’t coexist in a relationship like that I I have honestly no idea I think it’s because like maybe the companies are competing with each other so maybe there’s like some kind of discord in the relationship because of that but there’s nothing like that between me and John because I don’t really feel that Ring of Honor and impact are direct competing Ring of Honor’s its own niche or it used to be it still can be and they need to get back to that but I think impact is doing something totally different they’re doing energy under wrestling and they have like this whole this whole like liberal thing going on I look at women’s wrestling an impact I’m like man that’s that’s the marquee attraction right now with the people I think Kiera Hogan is incredibly underrated I think she’s really great Taiyo Valkyrie has just exemplified champion Tessa Blanchard yourself like I look at that I’m like that’s four really good pillars to have for a division and they signed to Neil Dashwood – that has somebody with WTB exposure do you see them maybe building the show around women even more and more as things go along for sure I mean at a summer bursary they had the main event wasn’t injured inter-gender match so I think they’re definitely starting to like build the women just as much as the men at this point like we’re worse we’re side by side it’s not like the women’s division is under the men’s division at all they’re giving equal like opportunity and they’re putting eyes on both products did that surprise you how all-in they went on all this because I mean they they’ve had fluctuating regimes to say the least so any vision kind of got erased after a year so it looks like things are on track with Callison two more they haven’t went anywhere for a while they seem to have a pretty distinct vision of what they want to do yeah I think they have a really distinct vision of what they’re gonna do every what they’re gonna do just by hearing what they say in the talent meetings and like hearing what they say to me personally like I’m super excited in the direction everything is going and I think people maybe they’re not gonna be surprised but they’re gonna be like really like happy with what’s coming up so who do you look at in that company and you’re like man I got to work with them male or female whoever it may be and you’re like I just gotta get in there with them so me and Tessa we really really want to tag-team and we like wanna we want to challenge for the tag team titles yeah and I think Ethan Paige and Josh Alexander I think it would just be an incredible match I think it would just blow it out of the park and I think they’d be awesome to see I don’t know if they’ve ever had like an inter-gender tag like championship match like that yeah I think that’d be really cool I mean I guess to some degree cuz Eric Young held one of the Knockouts titles but that’s that was a little bit different none of you were playing comical yes none of you were playing comedy characters exactly hey we’re back I wish I wish that clip had have cut out of a five seconds sooner five seconds senator because people would heard some awesome stuff from Sean Ross app that was pretty good to kind of finish what up what I’ve been saying here kind of ripping into WWE status today I want to talk about aw because the big beneficiaries of this whole situation are aew I’ve said this before they cannot have come along at a better time because not only is aew considered live sport just like WWE which is sought after by networks but double w creative is only gonna get worse I don’t see it getting any better on a consistent basis on that Smith’s McMahon is removed from his position which is not gonna happen so III don’t see it getting any better there’s a good chance the double W II will continue to turn off its fan base because of these creative ideas and that means that there’s a good chance those fans are gonna look for an alternative and AW is going to be the entity that can take advantage of that now I will say though having watched the first show last week there their debut on TNT ae W is not bulletproof and and because they are a new entity you can only get away with sloppy stuff for so long that tag match main event when Moxley ran in jumped Kenny Omega he’s attacking him outside he poly DDT’s him through a glass table no DQ the young bucks make like a you know we got we we have a match to work three on two we want to get our spots in so Omega you’re on your own take care of yourself the whole thing was stupid and I’m sure a lot of people watch that going how is that not a DQ the guy ran in in front of the referee the referees watching them you know and it and it bothered me that nobody bothered to ask that the post-show scrum like howdy that’s that’s something that we need clarity on Cody said it’s referees discretion I I at least like I mean I like that he tried yes I said we’re gonna review it I mean Jimmy it’s better than them saying nothing you’re right what do we do we does whatever the time is now one of the thing I want to say about last week’s AAW show what sorry I’m sorry to interrupt the reffing in aw tag matches has to get better I agree I’d downright didn’t like aw this week it was three tag matches and the reffing was absent oh really I haven’t seen it except for us all a little bit of Darby Allen Seema that’s all I saw that was good I like that huh yeah it was alright one of them one of the thing I want to say but aw show last week I love the Jake Hager signing I love it I think he is a good pickup you know we’ve talked before Sean about how double w/e should implement time off cycles because not only does it give the town line the time to kind of refresh and heal up and everything but they come back harder than when they left cuz the crowds happy to see them Jake Jake Hager when he left up it abused Jack Swagger he was kind of a mid card guy you know he didn’t have a massive fan base he leaves WWE he goes into MMA he has a couple of wins in Bellator now granted the arrogance journeyman fighters but still he has a couple of dominant wins in belt Bellator and now aew picks him up I think he is a solid pick up the guy is deceptively huge oh yeah physically and I’m sure he’s gonna keep fighting in Bellator so long as he keeps winning and I’m sure maybe you know aew is going to be able to hook up with Bellator and make sure they keep feeding him journeyman fighters but if he can keep winning in Bellator he is a big pickup for aew he’s not gonna be at the level of a brock lesnar because Brock Lesnar was the UFC champion and you’ve got UFC here and Bellator here but still I think he is a big pickup for aew I think that an eventual Jake Hager versus lucha Saurus match will unlock Jake Hagar’s potential in the ring he had a very uninspired mlw run and I mean we almost hired him at one point yeah I’m on cast remember we were in really like close negotiations with him I was gonna be him and his wife from what I remember but ended up doing an interview instead and he went the Bellator route I think that’s good because as we’ve seen Jimmy there are some pro wrestlers that can’t beat journeyman fighters that’s very true and I mean Batista struggled with it yes he did you respected Batista he struggled with it too now granted it was a debuting guy against the guy who had like 30 40 fights and that’s still dangerous I don’t care who you are but we’ve seen it and I like it is it the biggest splash that could have made no but he’s got a clean slate he hasn’t been on T in like three years I agree and you know it you know what else I liked I liked how he stood in the middle of the ring and he looked at the hard camera and he went like this but he didn’t say anything and because it was a smart crowd because that first show was a traveling crowd and they were a smart crowd they all chanted we the people but Jake Hager didn’t say it and he didn’t even melt the words if I’m Jake Hager I never say that catchphrase double/double you probably won’t let him do it anyway yeah but I would never say that catchphrase I would just put my hand over my heart let the crowd say it and I think that they can really do some good things with him they really got to get over his mm a back rub they got to push his Bellator fights on television yeah and I think they got good things now I would like I like the idea of man you just roll on to the next side every so much content today go ahead I got I like your idea Jimmy there you go now don’t I want to do a note for viewers that are gonna be checking out aw tonight because they just announced this today there’s currently a baseball game happening on TBS as we do this a playoff game and it was announced that if that game goes long then the late game that’s supposed to air on TBS after the current game will air on TNT until the current game is over at which time TNT will go to aew now most likely the current game will be over before before aew starts on TNT but should it go along they’re gonna put the late game on TNT either way IEW will air live on truTV so I want to provide a programming note Alex is not on tonight’s show there are going to be people that cry and say is on vacation this week goes may this may come as a shock to some people who think that I like banished Alex from the Raw and Smackdown shows we want fair reviews we don’t want someone to come in and immediately if like braun strowman and Roman reigns have the greatest match of all time to be like yeah but and what a fair review and Alex felt like he could fairly review a aw and NXT bit more so we’re doing that Denise’s on Mondays Warren is on Fridays but if you guys are one of those people that say Oh I don’t know I can’t hit a button and go to his Twitter well we have good news for you sour grapes with Alex pelowski starts on fight for select next week so you all will get to hear Alex talk about anything he wants in whatever manner he wants positively negatively he could make a peanut butter and jelly sandwich and eat it during the segment if he wants I don’t know by that I don’t want him to do that I’m not paying up to that as long as okay here’s what we’re gonna do as long as the jelly is made out of sour grapes that’s the only way but you all can see and hear his stuff over there there you go awesome now the next point I was gonna make about aw I want to talk about the supposed Wednesday night war okay now obviously last week I think people saw the ratings 8uw crushed NXT I don’t have the exact numbers offhand I think it was 1.4 million free W and somewhere along the lines what eight hundred seventy thousand for NXT so I’m like that yeah let me just say this alright and I am saying this bipartisan I’m not saying this as Pro aw and I’m not saying this is Pro double w e slash NXT I’m being honest anybody who thinks looking at the lineups for this week’s show and this week is an example anybody that thinks that NXT has a shot of competing with aew week in and week out you need to have a reality check because lineups have been announced for for this week on aew so far they’ve announced a first round match in the Tag Tournament between the young bucks and private party Darby Allen against Jimmy havoc where the winner gets a title shot I could go on a rant about how another one deserves it and they need a secondary title but I’ll save that for another time John Massey again Shawn Spears and Chris Jericho and Sammy Guevarra against a man hangman Page and Dustin Rhodes which is big for saving Guevara so good for him but they have advertised that for a W and T and T tonight NXT on USA is advertised Walter versus Kushina who a lot of uh Singh fans don’t even know who they are and they’ve announced true Gulick against leo rush with the cruiserweight title WWE if they think that they can compete with aw advertising matches like that they are completely out to lunch there is no chance that NXT compete with a twith with a W this Wednesday night war is going to be over quick because aw was gonna slaughter them if they’re advertising lineups like that against the aw lineup and when I saw these lineups I looked up the lineups this morning for both shows and I saw what was advertised and I thought you are out of your mind WWE have you think that you have any chance of competing with AAW with that kind of advertised lineup zero chance shot of competing yep I agree I think that last week’s number was a massive success for aew yeah the real tale or the real thing to be told is will it increase or will it decrease after week one that’s important and something that we haven’t really even considered and I don’t know how much it’ll add they’re getting replayed all week I heard about them cheap all week and back down it’s to here and there on like fs2 and stuff right that is an element that we haven’t seen to this degree since the Monday Night war era Brian really aw just had or WCW just had theirs right afterwards I don’t remember them getting replayed all throughout the week like that’s something if you got somebody channel surfing on a Saturday afternoon and they just swing by truTV like what the hell is this you’re gonna attract a couple people that way yeah good good for that I think that’s awesome yeah III don’t expect this week’s numbers going to beat last week’s number but I do think it’s still gonna be decent I think they’re still gonna do well over a million viewers you know and and they’re delivering in the in the key demos too so that’s that’s good for them all right let’s move on to talk about mr. Seth Rollins we touched upon it earlier I’m well because I want to talk about you know kind of what they need to do again in my opinion and I think you agree with me on this Seth Rollins is dead in the water as a main event babyface in WWE based on not just Hell in a Cell Shawn but based on his general handling since WrestleMania he is dead in the water first you had Brock Lesnar slaughter him on multiple occasions and yeah Seth won the title back in the end yeah that’s great he got slaughtered on multiple occasions by Brock Lesnar then as soon as the news comes out that he and Becky Lynch are dating WWE has to shove that down to everybody’s throats they’re doing all these little cutesy segments backstage making people want to vomit in their mouths and it made Seth look like an idiot they start the build for Hell in a Cell and you’ve got your Universal champion the type of guy on your brand cowering in a corner crying as part of the build for the thing and then of course Helena saw the way the match was booked he is dead in the water as a main event level level babyface double W was smart to keep him off the show this week on Raw cos he was going to get booed Shawn if they had brought him out on Raw he should have brought him out and he should have shit on the crowd and said you guys don’t know what it’s like to be in the ring with the fiend I don’t care that you booed you can boo if you want I don’t give a shit let me know the next time you’re in the ring with them oh wait you can’t you’re fucking losers bye and I agree with you that they need to pivot and turn them heel I think they should do it like during Hell in a Cell even before the crappy finish at Hell in a Cell whenever Seth made a cover and brie kicked out that should the crowd popped when he kicked out they have rejected Seth Rollins as a main event babyface because of his handling since WrestleMania and needs to make a drastic statement I think thanks way to go I know they’ll have Becky completely ignored if they did it and they shouldn’t it they should have her address at backstage and have her be like he’s doing what I did and I don’t blame him right right I’ve been there I know what he’s feeling that’s it move on separate business and work in in personal life there you go we got to talk about how great NWA was it was really good okay let’s let’s finish so so let me say first that if you go to fight will select calm after this we’re gonna have the list goes on which is additional stuff we’re gonna talk about edge we’re going to talk about Tyson Fury Cain Velasquez Chad Gable Baron Corbin Hulk Hogan Shawn’s favorite and we might touch upon we might touch mine Impact Wrestling a little bit let’s talk about NWA power right I caught the show and I don’t never talk about it off the air it was a real throwback like you know it was a real throwback to thirty years ago everything was almost identical to the old NWA show thirty years ago they were in a very similar-looking was it the exact same studio no is that it was like a block or two away it was they had it set up the same way the ring looked identical to the ring from 30 cm color and everything they had the same setup with the two broadcaster’s at the broadcast table then they had the the table set up for the interviews excuse me and they did a lot of the same kind of thing where the guy would come out from the curtain he would go to the table cut the interview and then immediately go to the ring and then during the course of the show most of the matches were Enhancement matches which I’m cool with because that’s how you build your talent but then they would finish with the competitive match at the end they weren’t just Enhancement matches they were Enhancement matches where the guys did cool stuff like I mean I’ll be honest with you a lot of the guys on that roster wrestle the same way but you would never be able to tell it based on their Enhancement matches you go in there and you watch the wild-card team who’s whose story is they were put together as a wild-card team in the tag tournament and ended up being really successful they whipped those poor jobbers asses so bad and then you had a guy come out there calling for Tim storm it was Josephus just screaming storm come out here and then James Storm came out there just to shut him up right that was really cool the promos on there Jimmy ruled yeah they were all just so simple this show was exactly as advertised and I’m that style of wrestling was never my thing I was a WWF kid uh-huh I didn’t really give a shit about that like I didn’t care much for that and then Tim storm 54 years old looked better in the ring than he did as in W a champion he rose to the occasion him and Nick Aldous had a really good match I loved this show I loved it Jim Cornette was good on commentary hey I’m not gonna agree with his opinions on almost anything based on the way he takes things but his commentary was good I thought the other fella can’t remember his name was good Dave marques was good on interviews only thing I thought was lacking was the championship introductions I think they could have been a little more pomp and circumstance but I thought this show yeah it was definitely a throwback to thirty years ago I mean watching the promos from that table setup it’s almost like I was seeing Ric Flair and the horsemen because it was the exact same setup the only thing I didn’t like and I told Shawn about this off the year was the backdrop that they had for the interview stage there where the table was it looked pretty cheap it look like it was thrown together last minute so I wasn’t a fan of the backdrop I think they could work on that but otherwise yeah it was definitely a throwback I saw that the viewership numbers on YouTube are pretty good I question how they’re making money with this because youtube doesn’t monetize wrestling the best it’s it’s an ad it’s an ad for fur to try to get other things yeah to try to get into a network that reported about it last week it is about two hundred and sixty thousand views between YouTube and Facebook right now good for them good for them the last and the last I look didn’t dark have just a bit over four hundred thousand last I looked I’d have to look I can look right now on YouTube so that so four hundred and thirty-five thousand on YouTube so you good number that’s a good number but good for NWA that they’re not embarrassingly lower than aw dark well here’s the thing also like I don’t know if you saw I think lagana came out and said like 22% of their viewers came from a W dark okay like they were able to see that what the lead-in was and they’re getting the YouTube bump now as lagana calls it but man you got a show on aw doing 400 it’s gonna end up well over 500 thousand you got a show doing five hundred thousand think about what that’s gonna do for your subscription numbers NWA as well that’s important Jimmy our numbers have been noticeably better since we’ve had this bump over the last week like we’ve been doing really great numbers I actually told my senior engineer we had to work on our web servers because Shawn was hitting me up on Friday saying I think the site just crashed so so yeah things have been pretty good all right man that’s all I got for you for the list but but again five will select com the list goes on got a bunch more topics we’re gonna we’re gonna tackle so check it out and it got real dark in here all of a sudden Jesus right coming or something yeah yeah leave a thumbs up subscribe guys remember Wednesday night war podcast also check out our Monday Night Raw podcast we do with Denise else a you know she appeared on watch along this week was sitting in for that pay-per-view finish which was something to behold Friday or here with Warren Hayes and we’ve got the mock draft up as well I mopped the floor with Jeremy but subscribe to fight for select guys it has exploded over the last week and I can’t tell you all how important that is to what we’re doing eventually me and Jimmy have talked about moving it to fight foal calm hopefully we’ll do that eventually and hopefully you guys will stick around but hopefully you guys stuck around for this show and you go over there for the for the list goes on yes the list goes on damn it Wow subscribe to fight full on YouTube for the latest exclusive podcasts interviews and news across boxing MMA and Pro Wrestling

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